It's not easy. So far, we all appear to have jobs, but man, what a shocker, I thought ours was one of the more stable teams.Not sure what happens to our Director, he seemed a bit shocked himself when he delivered the news today. Microsoft, Go to company page Eng, Go to company page Your lead. You will not know the difference.Steve Steve Steve given the state of the company, are you sure you don't have anything else more urgent to do? I am soliciting ideas to reduce cost in this blog. I've been a 62 for too long by Microsoft standards. That is one aspect where they are forced to build fake relationships with directors and GMs to get promoted and unfortunately those who maintain good relatiship with them get promoted. For context, I have always been "exceeded" or "high achieved", If you want to dig a bit more around job titles which gives you an idea of someones level or the dispersion of a team, remember that the title you see in Outlook is not the real title, its just the address book title. During the start-up boom, I considered leaving. I want to share some of my thoughts about succeeding at Microsoft and reaching Level 63, the Senior contributor level at Microsoft. Regarding the comment about the ability to own a room - This is a very good self-calibration technique. They are 100% star material. At Microsoft, the levels start at 59 and go beyond 80. Repeat. You know you want to get to that other bar, but that chasm in between is fraught with risk. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Anyone know others? "Sad but true. With wide-eyed wonder he asked WHAT? I said whatever the @#$% your manager most needs you to do!6. You should be on the same side. I'm not talking about "managing up" (though that helps a little if done properly) but it's all about understanding your manager and skip manager's priorities and proactively succeeding in those areas. Also, go mine some of Dr. Brechner's Hard Code columns. No manager can bail you out of "bad brand jail" past L625. : those titles are organization specific. And your manager will not hate you for thinking about switching -- if you are a great employee to begin with, he will just want to keep you around. You are now 20% closer to promotion just by a day of work :). Will there be room on your team? Feedback is not detailed or actionable. Why? What to do?The remaining is either a) absorb into other org (say A)b) if A doesn't need testers, then VP will instruct them to find another position in 6 weeks. Great post and comments. In my org the cut is 70% on promos. Unless you plan to stay in the same org the rest of the time at MS. At a basic level, in a company the size of Microsoft, the higher you go, the less you contribute individually and the more you contribute by your impact on an organization - hiring the right people, setting clear and correct goals, driving alignment and execution. I'm sure others here will clarify.And apparently we will all know more in January. I think getting promoted elsewhere is not as tough as getting promoted in CTS-GTSC. Also, there's 2 ladder, management ladder and seniority ladder. If it isn't, well don't waste everyone's time building the wrong thing.When you think of it this way, you'll anticipate what your manager needs, you'll anticipate what your skip-level needs, and you'll be doing what they need even before they know they need it. Because, IMO, that is the jist of jcr's post. But above L62 the talent is intense and that is good. They know that if the team does well, they will do fine.5. 6 years ago I developed what I have been supporting since. the answer is simple - take on more. The first levels came quickly with some sticking around 64 and 65 (half my career).I have always taken on and fixed problem areas that no one else wants to take on. If you go looking for those problems though, you better be prepared to deliver. Good managers: In general, good managers realize that they need to sell their team's accomplishments. This can play a bigger role even than how many times you broke the build, caused a bug, etc. You have to be extremely faithful to your management while at the same time carefuly growing your broad influence to your manager's piers. Woow. The estimated total pay for a Senior Director at Microsoft is $500,742 per year. I have seen and known many of my own peers who don't get promoted because of potential but the number of people you know in the leadership team. I believe that the most fundamental difference between level 62 and 63 is in the realm of EQ (emotional quotient, see the book Working With Emotional Intelligence" by Goleman). I think you should play some games while searching for you L63 promotions. Proficient in product delivery, business & cost transformation, supplier management, client relationships and growth opportunities Working extensively at senior board level to deliver high value . If you reach L63 during your time at Microsoft, especially if you started at L60 or below, you should celebrate. kc. Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. Director can be just principal in sales or marketing. Difference between getting promoted to L65 and joining as new FTE at L65 is HUGE. Be prepared for every possible question, scenario, disaster, etc. Email@ elliereinker@gmail.com | Call@ 330-554-0249. Add your salary anonymously in less than 60 seconds and continue exploring all the data. Yet, when you have 2 or 3 offers at the end of very hard interview loops, which one are you going to choose: the team that listens to HR or the team that listens to the market? What's worse is the noise this creates. When you see a bozo who is L65 it is highly likely that he had joined MS recently at L64-L65 directly.Here's biggest difference in expectations between levels: The L62 guys are supposed to be able to lead their feature and perhaps influence couple of related features by spreading their best practices. For example, in order to be promoted to level 62, you, as a level 61, must already perform at a level 62 level for a long time. The technical and management ladder in Microsoft is highly competitive and is highly regarded in the Industry. And when the time comes, putting you up for a promotion to L63 is the first time your boss will be challenged by your skip-level and by your Aunt and Uncles (your boss's peers) about one of your promotions. It's a struggle even to get a solid Level 59 promoted to 60 because of budget and under-levelling of devs in 60-61 range. No one wants an employee who is staying for the money -- and you don't want to be that employee, either. You don't deliver products on your own -- you're usually building one system, one set of components that together make one successful (or unsuccessful) product.You can always, always find ways that make yourself, your manager, and your immediate team much more successful. Just ensure that you do the absolute best in whatever is thrown at you and promotion will take care of itself. Former Employee Director, Level 65 at Microsoft Aug 11, 2009 - Director in Redmond, WA Recommend CEO Approval Business Outlook Pros Microsoft has all the resources necessary to win in the market, and you're surrounded by some of the brightest people in the world. You havent [sic] seen nothing [sic] yet. Software development at MS has become more complex and much more collaborative. While a manager can help coach you, and you can follow the advice in this post and comments (most of which are great, by the way), you have no way of knowing if there are 0 or 10 people also on the team doing the same things, ahead of you for the limited number of promotions available. Now read over your answer. I only wish the internal MyMicrosoft blog had posts that were this valuable and insightful. I take a creative approach to accelerating business transformation as a . (Not). These guys are typically outcome of recent hiring sprees. If you are in office, you will have lots of experience promoting people up to 62 but after that it's a rare event. I /like/ OneCare. Starting to reach out and grab some of what you would be doing with a bigger scope/higher level.An earlier poster said it. 5. Seek out local critique before you approach people above you. And in my experience they are *eager* to get your skills and your lower level payroll expense! In the beginning, I volunteered for these tough areas that no one else wanted and over time, my brand became the fix it guy. This way you have a more clear understanding of the seniority of that particular position and if you search for a group manager you will see the seniority distribution. Apple should in no way be throwing stones at Microsoft in this regard. Great and timely post - thank you Mini! Wouldnt my manager get annoyed if I try to go over him to get myself know to VP? I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. Excuses and griping and bemoaning aren't the stuff that L63 contributors are made of. Once they successfully cross the chasm theyll start over on the typical S-shaped learning curve at the new level again. You will never get your promotion on a silver platter. How long can someone stay at the same level before they get blacklisted? If I was looking at reducing costs this isn't exactly where I'd set my sights first but again this is Microsoft we're talking about. If you're not an Absolutely! Somebody help me out here. 1. I've seen L65's who can't own a cardboard box, let alone a room. I came from .NET (no longer there), and there were plenty of Senior IC PMs and Devs.Are you in Test, Marketing or Documentation? The PM team loved having my technical expertise freely available, and I actually really like designing features too.Anyway, two simple things, but I think what Mini said about not doing this IN ORDER to get promoted is key. Until you can be honest with yourself (and it's not fun, trust me) you will be stuck doing what you're doing and your complaining will be the glue keeping you there. He himself is principal for quite sometime. I went from level 62 to level 65 in that time. Do you know why? And in your answer, there's a kicker follow-up: not only what you need to do to justify being promoted to L63, but to succeed in comparison to your L63 + L64 peers. Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. I know many that purposely work for Microsoft as contractors just for this reason. Thank you for reviewing my profile. Turn (it) Around, Bright Eyes: every now and then I get a little bit thrilled when someone joins the team straight out of school (or with a little industry experience) and after a few months it's obvious that Microsoft is the best company for them. I basically lost 5 years of growth due to a bad manager and my own unwillingness to own my career. Why are we doing x and not y? My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried? I basically just hoped that hard work would get me ahead. Senior Account Executive | Director | Sales & Marketing. Establish SD/VSTF branching steering committee and send out monthly report. right? In fact, every boss I've had has told me that I was the most frustrating employee they've ever had, mostly because I ignore half the things they ask me to doAnyhow, here's my advice: do a good job.That's it. There were times when I was promoted more slowly than I probably could have been, but I am very happy with where I am now, and I am still growing. I myself am a L62 on the cusp of a midyear promo after 18 months. If you can make the argument about the job - and you're in a position of strength, obviously harder now than in years past, you can make the case. Nowadays, having been there and moved up, I would highly prefer someone that already succeeded as a Lead at Microsoft than a star individual contributor. This is the multiplier effect, or scope of influence that is often mentioned. Help Your Manager (and your team) Be Successful: No one has more influence over whether you get promoted than your immediate mgr. To anonymous who has spent 3.5 years in role at MS. You're already blacklisted. The good thing in most teams here is that if you persist, you will get there. In particular I am at 64 for quite some time. All the money making groups cut 10% of the work force. Will some new person to the team who shows high growth potential push you aside even though you've been doing really solid work for years?Sometimes I wish it worked like an experience bar in a video game where you can clearly see when you will "ding". This is a problem, at least up to level 65. I'm a level 62 dev trying to get to 63. In MCS, soft skills are often more important than hard skills since you work with customers (often angry ones), sales (often under pressure and looking for someone to blame). We have covered both technical and management track at Microsoft. The Goldstars have already been canceled for this quarter.Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. It's a good time to flip back through that. Know what is going to make your product succeed, know what is going to make your team succeed, know what part of that you can achieve. Promotion to 63 happened to me 2 years ago when I helped ship Office 2007. SQL is one of the groups that has consistently delivered quality and growth. So all you're telling me is I can't count on you so why should I? Who cut and paste buggy shit all over the codebase and don't know some of the things that a good L62 should know. FY08 review: "limited". An accomplished and proven Director / Tech & Business Principal / Programme Manager / Business Partner / Service Delivery Manager with a wide-ranging skillset, experienced in leading teams to success. The estimated total pay for a Senior Director at Microsoft is $500,742 per year. Really inspiring. Ask yourself: what fraction of your job do you actually enjoy? Help make it more accurate by, Get started with your Free Employer Profile, average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, The Ultimate Job Interview Preparation Guide. So yes, Mini's list should get you to 63 anywhere. I made sure I was the fastest, most efficient, and best bug fixer. It's just that the scope is different. If youre working individually there is an upper limit on how much you can accomplish since there are only 24 hours in a day some of which must be devoted to eating, sleeping, and other bodily functions. My work affected hundreds of developers in our org. Anyone moved from Office to some other part of company? I also agree with the promotion-on-transfer point. There may be multiple reasons for pay differences - one of which is a small number of salaries submitted per job. What is our competition doing? You can work hard and grind it out. ;) I have one thing to add that might help some. If I ever do decide to come back to MSFT, I will do so as a level 68+ and nothing less. Absolutely. You broke the trust cycle so don't expect anything else. Barring extraordindary circumstances each year you will get the "welcome to our group" evaluation.Don't forget the aunts and uncles. I definitely want to read more soon.Sincerely yoursSteave Markson. Level 61 - overseas. L68 is partner, or you may see GM. how to check hall sensor on samsung washer; marriott grande vista grande cove menu; what happened to josh's partner bill on moonshiners; are goldfish crackers good for an upset stomach Advice from anyone at Microsoft for 10+ years is great to hear, but hard to follow. L63 guys are supposed to influence their entire skip level org. This employer has claimed their Employer Profile and is engaged in the Glassdoor community. If I was 65/66 material, why did they wait until I gave notice to offer me the promotion? The funding for our project stopped and our vendor team of 28 people have been asked to leave immediately. Maybe one boss likes to see a lot of code written, and another settles for less code, but fewer bugs. The biggest lesson I learned here was how to work *with* other teams, even when I thought they weren't very good and even when our purposes didn't align. senior director can be L66 or L67. I suggest understanding why it is "No" first, truthfully accepting the point-of-view as pissed off as it may make you, and then having a self-directed action-plan to get on track. There are tons of Principles and L64s anyone can immediately recall who are not doing anything above or beyond their immediate teams. But that doesn't really help you compete when you don't know what everyone else is doing, particularily if you think you're doing well.Further, it's hard to get specific advice on how to get promoted, due to said black wall. Learn How to State Your Case and Earn Your Raise, Climb the Ladder With These Proven Promotion Tips, A Guide to Negotiating the Salary You Deserve, How to Prepare for Your Interview and Land the Job. Same applies if you started your career in Test. So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).Yes, L64->L65 transition is REALLY big deal but directly joining MS at L65 as new FTE is not a big deal and there are usually ample of open positions. They can be wrong about exactly what these flaws are, but they aren't wrong that you are flawed. For many in our sub, MCS seems to be the place of incompetent managers and just a pitstop to somewhere else. So one big part is do good work, but another is don't do bad work.I think it's a very good idea to ask for a promotion. Granted, you have to live in the greater NYC area, but it's a great place to be. But if you think you should be promoted and your manager doesn't, you shouldn't sit and seethe -- you must understand what it will take. Why? About Highly experienced director and business leader who has successfully operated at senior management level & currently serves as a non-executive director on the Board of a number of. If you are considering leaving your team (or Microsoft) but think you could be persuaded to stay, be careful about how you present this to your manager. The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.I would not give most of this advice to our campus hires as any kind of roadmap. By contrast, most directors don't have their own budgets, but need approvals from their VP to do just about anything. Great post Mini. I am happy to be an L63, trying to get to L64 so I can relate.How I got here (I started as an industry hire 61 about 5 years ago):1. Buy a Principal a coffee. Alternate to your left hand appropriately when tired. Popping out of the pack in peer reviews may take some time so you have to be diligent, consistent and never give up. Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. Take responsibility for defining the component in front of you -- is it really the right thing for the product/team? I've been at Microsoft six years.I've never spent one second honestly thinking about my career or how to get a promotion or anything like that. A broad perspective matters.3) This is all about stack rank. You've told me you're not willing to have the hard career conversation with me and/or that you're not willing to do what I told you needed to be done when we had that conversation. And having a friend gain less than 3000/yr with a promo to Pricincipal cemented that. Now the setup team for most products has more than 6 devs. It's probably true that there's more to the story and that they actually have important skills that matter. Browse all Microsoft salaries . I thought what I did was valuable but in the end, it wasn't.The Microsoft up or out policy is the prime directive. Its a natural consequence of the learning curve. for L63? Microsoft is so unique (and not in a good way) that you need to have blogs like this and focus on managing your career inside the hobbesian nightmare, rather than making good and cool software. And the place where MS has the most non-contributing overheads is Redmond. It's what you can offer, not what you want out of it that most teams are looking for. Those people are almost all Level 62's with few prospects. I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. "http://www.poppendieck.com/pdfs/Compensation.pdfWorth a read, Lisa. After all, they are thinking through if you will be a good peer and will be easy to work with (and make their lives better in some way). Great post. Most of our ways of doing things have so many imperfections that you would not have any trouble to find obvious thing to improve in obvious ways. Microsoft Salary. It's really not that complicated. If you read CSPs this is the underlying message more or less. I work in MSN and we still have no way to know the levels of our peers. No, L7 is 66-67. Therefore, our need for people who can collaborate across their own team, across disciplines, across org boundaries is greater than ever before. Microsoft Corp. engages in the development and support of software, services, devices, and solutions. Let's connect and I will happily share more about my background and accomplishment and how I can contribute to the success of your organization. Kathleen Hogan. So no time like the present to practice where you can. Whenever his lead would ask him to do X he would refuse and insist on doing Y instead. I have seen people turn it around. If you have your mnanager in your pocket, you cna achieve greate heights in life. One question a manager will think about before promoting you is how many times he had to clean up after you pissed off someone else - especially if it's someone on another team. But they don't have the same visibility that your manager has in your specific org. This means there are 24 distinct job levels at Microsoft. Specifically, what did they accomplish, and what contributions do you see them doing to justify their promotion? Microsoft Director level role - Level 66 - what should I expect from COMP sideYOE-15Current TC- 235k Microsoft is a Technology Giant and has been the biggest Technology Company in recent years. You havent seen nothing yet. L63 is very much an important milestone, and in tough-hiring times like these the following question has never been more important: "Will <
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