And it was just [22:11] during the process that its a startup, were at growth stage but not to expect to be able to predict our courses like that public company again. Its a Greek name, British accent. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. And so just be prepared that however smart, however many smart people have looked the deal and thought about whether it will work, it always take a little bit more time than you think it will to integrate because theres always some gremlin kind of hiding in the works that youre going to find. Youre right that is wrong advice. It was like $46 million. It was at the time Pat Mapper example almost the same size on consumer but now Zumper is much bigger but we called it like a cheat and your job as the founder is to identify like vertical cheats where overnight you become bigger than your competitors. How do you take a company with those tractions, 10 million in revenue. Alejandro: Got it. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. Its so hard to get marketplaces liquidity so correct, the beautiful thing as you know is when you have it, it took us three years to get to that, it just runs and you just grow naturally when you have both sides but its so hard to get to it. Im the CEO and Ive always felt that it was my responsibility to do the fundraising. After that, it changed to more consumer. You know marketplaces and liquidity is king like you were pointing to finding what you need in the shortest period of time because otherwise theyre going to go elsewhere. I mean youre doing various jobs, head of sales, head of finance, head of fundraising, head of like DZ. So you kind of just have to [25:29] but just to be clear yeah, we had far more nos than yeses at the seed round. Well help you prequalify renters and actually get the renter in to a lease, signing the documents, paying the first month deposit but well charge you a percentage of the lease fairly. She was our original CPO and after the series A, she moved on to roller, another company and we promoted someone internally to CPO. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Raising money first, marketplace businesses is still really difficult and Ive raised $90 million and Im still saying it is difficult. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. And so I didnt really think about it too often because this is kind of 15 years ago but then I moved to another six or seven times into an apartment rentals in London, in Boston, in New York and the process is so bad every time, not just in searching but also in actually like getting the apartment. I grew up in London. Your third month is getting kind of diligence done and getting the wires in to the door. Get 5 free searches. So Id say your first month you spend like getting first, second, third meeting. There was no book [01:41]. So it was never I want to be an entrepreneur journey. So what was that process like you were talking about, yes, your network of Harvard but can you share with us like what was that process of landing Kleiner on your seed round? You just get to this kind of motion of you all feel the same and you kind of pull in the same direction. Great question. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. Saying that to your point, we see the deal was a successful and yet M&A is really hard to integrate. I mean I think at seed round its like an [26:02]. Got it. Taylor Glass-Moore Co-Founder. So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? Saying that, I have connections through both business school and previous people that have gone through BCG venture capital and most of your listeners and entrepreneurs will know so much of this is about like getting warm introductions to VCs so I did have a couple of cheats to get in through the network or through the BCG network. I mean if you could give some kind of like tips you know both fronts it would be really fantastic. Were going to charge you per lead or for the smaller landlords we charge them if theyre [11:15] for the transaction. And it was just [22:11] during the process that its a startup, were at growth stage but not to expect to be able to predict our courses like that public company again. Georgiades founded Zumper after his own . If you dont have those connections, I think this is where like a lot of these accelerators and incubators, Y Combinator or Techstars or Launch are really good where you can apply. So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. He runs all the background of operation and he came from the real estate industry, two completely different background and neither of them was an obvious pick when I started the company at grad school. Were incredibly grateful for everything she did and she remains kind of shareholder in the company. Alejandro: Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? How autonomous can people be at the junior levels? Yeah. Pat Mapper caters to 25 and under and kind of big college populations. So I think three months is an efficient round. In the early days, youre going to need to take all the capital you can get. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? So M&A are strategic [33:48]. Zumper which is a little bigger in terms of audience now caters more to urban professionals moving within cities. So thats how Zumper got started. So the majority of that is still in the bank but yeah, we raised money in capital [12:00]. Its a good question. I think at that stage it makes sense. So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. I love it. For every successful fundraise, every single company have a lot of nos. Got it. Never thought Id be an entrepreneur. Of course and I agree with you there, Anthemos. You just cant get spooked. It just really helps to divide and conquer like that while I was meeting new investors again. It is not closely married to [14:55] and thats where its still on [14:58] I think Silicon Valley has a long way to go where when I got my first introductions to VCs to Kleiner, to Andreseen, to Graylock, to NEA, it often came through my graduate school network where someone was like, Hey, this guy is leaving HBS. glendale, az police activity today; archer lodge middle school calendar. We have like four people at the company for the first year or maybe five for the first year and so theres so much to do and theres so little time and few resources that you actually theres no real intellectual whiteboarding session that you do to carve out rose. Based in San Francisco, Anth leads the company in its mission to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. It was incredibly difficult. Were incredibly grateful for everything she did and she remains kind of shareholder in the company. But was drawn in to it just to solve a problem as I think so many entrepreneurs are. Then behind the scenes, Zumper will close the transaction with the landlord and set the renter up with kind of rent payment. So for the business, Anthemos, how much capital have you guys raised today? Every fantastic company has had hundreds of nos on the way to kind of huge outcomes and you just cant take it personally. In the first two or three years you will kill your marketplace if you create any barriers to entry from either side. It was just purely hustling my network for six months to find people who are really great cultural fit but also have very different skill sets to the one I have. Try for free at rocketreach.co He remains a huge Tottenham Hotspur fan, and wakes up painfully every Saturday morning to tune into the live English soccer games. We both had ideas to be entrepreneurs but neither of us have the guts to actually go for it. So I guess in just to like follow up on that, what in your mind and obviously in what youve seen creates really that magical relationship between cofounders? Anthemos Georgiades. They may not understand marketplace as well as you but they may be able to bring a brilliant way of thinking about how to bring the supply on [30:20]. Likewise. And were just a little earlier than obviously a public company so our gross is spikier. You shameless have to mine your network and I think all CEOs and entrepreneurs have to find that edge of how did they meet one of these investors, how did they meet someone that knows them. I mean your job moves from doing jobs in the first few years. Of course. Not really actually. Anthemos Georgiades, Zumper, European Founder, International Founders, Marketplace The process of renting apartments hasn't changed since Craigslist was introduced. He was with HBS 10 years ago. We want investors who look at $100 million in revenue as table stakes but they wont agree to a billion. Likewise. Thats just part of the game. 1. I think if you hire four cofounders like yourself, thats difficult and luckily we didnt have that problem. Obviously they knew and I think for us it was like telling Axle and the rest of our investors that there are going to be months where we massively beat plans and there will be months where were behind plans. Look how quickly our revenue are scaling. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. And for you I guess personally and professionally because I think they both come together, so how has your leadership and management skills changed over the time from leading the company of lets say four to ten folks initially to a company of over a hundred employees? Got it. I was just talking to a friend of mine about this. So we bought them. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solving a burning problem. So yes, we have a great cap table. For me, its Zumper, an apartment rental platform. It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. It is not suppose to be easy. And then my other cofounder Kurt Taylor I met through his mother who was an [04:43] and it was another example of just pure hustle. When people ask me what Im most nervous about its how to keep our amazing team together, a couple of tactics and then one thing that really worked. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. So what I wanted to ask you here is in terms of on boarding lets say this type of, because its a different beast, you know type of investors so how does the approach from evaluating an investor that is a VC, an angel or an angel group shift towards evaluating a potential strategic corporation that is looking to become part of your cap table? So I guess how did that consulting experience shape up your approach in terms of like tackling problems and the entrepreneurial journey itself? You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. But theres no right answer in business. anthemos georgiades net worth. FUNDED EP01: How to tell a story worth $140 million dollars (Zumper) 00:00 51:07 Episode Summary Anthemos Georgiades, founder of Zumper, perfected his pitch the way most founders do: through trial and error. I really enjoyed it and great stuff. Over-Communication. Get Anthemos Georgiades's email address (a*****@zumper.com) and phone number (646398..) at RocketReach. Prior to his work at Zumper, Georgiades worked at the Boston . Theyre struggling to kind of grow their audience because they didnt have enough listings whereas Zumper at the getgo we had a lot of unique landlords on the platform that no one else had. After that, it changed to more consumer. Youre exactly right. Absolutely. So that was great. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. In the early days, youre going to need to take all the capital you can get. In terms of the dynamics, I think in the early days, you kind of through osmosis graduate towards like the things that are important. Sujal Patel On Selling His First Business For $2.6 Billion And Now Raising $108 Million From Jeff Bezos And Others To Improve Medical Diagnostics, Cap Table: Everything Entrepreneurs Need To Know, He Cofounded A Business Of 4,000 Employees That Just Sold For $2.6 Billion To Delivery Hero, Sacha Michaud On Cofounding A Business Of 4,000 Employees That Just Sold For $2.6 Billion To Delivery Hero, His Previous Business Is Worth $1 Billion And Now Raised $54 Million To Create A Cloud-Native Database Service, Nikita Shamgunov On Building A $1 Billion Business And Now Raising $54 Million To Create A Cloud-Native Database Service, How to leverage your network for introductions, The importance of your metrics leading up to the, Expectations from investors during the different. No. Well, today's guest noticed that experience and wanted to improve it. Thats quite motivating for people. Anthemos Georgiades Current Workplace Zumper Location 555 Montgomery St Ste 1300, San Francisco, California, 94111, United States Industry Information Collection & Delivery, Media & Internet Description Discover more about Zumper Anthemos Georgiades Work Experience and Education Work Experience Manager, Summer Investment Atomico 2009-2010 You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. That is where your focus is and even though you kind of missed doing some of the stuff and the weeds and my team continue to tell me to get away from the weed and continue to [36:12] the 50,000 set, you have to let it go and trust your team to do a better job than you were doing. How do you scale like 20 million in revenue to 200 million in revenue and we didnt need the more product set investors because we already have fantastic people at that. I met Russel who [04:01] engineering products through just the personal connections in London. Got it. So if the story has changed in a way that merits the focus of the company but what is consistent every single time weve raised is that for six months in a row, we had really, really quick growth. I guess the question that I would ask you and perhaps some advice for some of those that are listening, that are building a business that is more around the network effects, the marketplaces, should they walk the other way if the investor is asking too much about revenue early on on the financing cycles? So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. All of it is going to be important and it will come out at the right stage. All of it is going to be important and it will come out at the right stage. Got it. You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. Absolutely. The one unifying theme in every fundraising Ive run is momentum. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solve a burning problem. At college in the UK, Ive had like multiple [00:58] renting apartments. So in the first two years, Zumper is now [07:52] $90 million in capital. Anthemos Georgiades: Oh wow, good question. Got it. Over time, its great to be able to bring in your team. You just cant get spooked. You rarely have enough data to make the absolutely correct decision and I think a lot of businesses fail especially start ups when they dont make decisions fast enough and in business schools, the case study methods taught me how to feel confident in making decisions without perfect information and how to use data to kind of then review once youve launched, whether it was right or wrong. Rental listing startup with more than 26 million users. And to be fair, some of these 20 did indeed come back later to invest but in Boston and I pitched all of the east coast investors first because I was on the east coast and they were straight nos. Alejandro: Got it. How many listings do we have on the site? And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. The most important thing is to surround yourself with an amazing support group because it is so much harder to build a company than I thought it was and the emotional resilience you need to get through the dark days and come back to the bright days even now is what [38:54] just get harder like yeah, we have more revenue now but with that there are people [38:58] and like huge revenue targets we have to attain and so the most important thing is surround yourself with a network of family, friends, mentors, peers, your team, your investors, whoever is an emotional crutch for you where you can take from them but also maybe get back to them as well when theyre having a tough time, thats the single most important thing is look after your mental health because it is lonely and it is stressful and if youre able to kind of be resilient you have a great outcome but it is really hard on some days to push through, so build that around just [39:35] and you can be happy while running your company.
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